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Poster: William Tell Date: Oct 20, 2009 5:04am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: A Pox On JOTS!!!!

I would only note that geniuses generally are not applying for NIH (nor NSF) grants!

Seriously...I think that the recent developments are an aberration. It is only the last 30 yrs that we developed the "academic-industrial complex" with expectations that ever kid should go to college (I like to think so...but not), that society should support science (I agree of course), etc., etc., etc. So, we have a "system" now to get scientists and faculty, and it is producing WAY too many of them for the jobs (how's the PHD market going? well, actually much better in your end of the pool, right?).

And, it's tough to evaluate geniuses for our time...I really mean if you take the top (?) 100 folks in world impact, what were their ages at the peak--Alexander, Mozart, Darwin, William Tell, etc.

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Poster: elbow1126 Date: Oct 20, 2009 5:13am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: A Pox On JOTS!!!!

So what drove this? All mighty dollar of course. Remember for every dollar that goes to fund a scientist an additional fraction of a dollar (something negotiated between the university and the gov't) goes to the university (indirect costs). So universities realized that having research was a way of attracting money as well as notoriety. Some where using projected indirect costs to issue bonds to build new buildings! It had become an academic welfare. Trust me, universities do not pay the salaries of most of the people who do biomedical research. Your tax dollars do that and when the economy crashed last year, some universities, including the one i previously worked for decided that the faculty would have to be accountable for an even greater percentage of their salary because the school couldn't afford it (not the reason i left, that happened after i made my decision). Universities are not the only ones to blame though as researchers realized that being productive was a way to attract more funding so labs got bigger and bigger therefore more graduate students were recruited into the system. I remember giving a talk in place of my former mentor and then sitting around at a lunch with three esteemed scientists and explaining to them that they never worked in a lab with 20 or more people in it but they now all run labs like that and that those 20 people were not all geniuses yet they were going to have to find jobs somewhere.

Now the funding lines are all very competitive. Does this mean we only fund geniuses? Hell no I am living proof of that, however I don't think complete morons are being funded either.

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Poster: skies Date: Oct 21, 2009 6:23am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: A Pox On JOTS!!!!

So ,here I cayght you in delirium conceit , again,Guillaume Tell ! You a genius zqual to mozart ,Darwin ,Alexander and such ? At least (for now) you spared us your claim as aqual to Bouddha or Vishnou !I simply cant everget used to this bunch of deadheads here at archive ,on any subject ,in all varieties of bolloney , indeed ,they are each amazing !Humm

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Poster: William Tell Date: Oct 21, 2009 7:31am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: A Pox On JOTS!!!!

Can you shoot an apple in half off the top of your young son?

Can you save a child from drowning in raging waters, ice cold?

Can you stand up to tyranny no matter what the personal cost?

Answer these questions three, and I might put you on the short list...

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Poster: skies Date: Oct 21, 2009 7:43am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: A Pox On JOTS!!!!

No,no,and yes W.Tell .If I had a son i would never shoot at a apple on his head , no i could not swim well enough to save someone drowning in regaing waters ,but yes i stood up against tyranny without regarding to my safety first ,and did that more than once too ,and can still do so nowadays ,if needed right there and then ,where i happen to be . Never expected rewards for it either.And i dont know the meaning/worth of your list ,i don't win the test then ?Zut !

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Poster: elbow1126 Date: Oct 20, 2009 5:31am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: A Pox On JOTS!!!!

Genius is tough to evaluate in real time. Probably even tougher to self-evaluate but you seem to have handled it with relative ease. Well done.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Oct 20, 2009 5:45am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: A Pox On JOTS!!!!

Hey L--we really are on the same page! Of course, I knew that already, but it is GREAT chatting with you about it all this fine early morning...finally cooling a bit out here, I think I can hear SDH hollering now that he opened one of the windows at the compound...

I recall the 60s in academia in which a PHD = job security...they were hiring up everyone...then, when the 70s came around, and so many folks went into the biological fields, it all changed...job market went to shit...never got better (in the early 80s everyone kept saying, "just hang on, everyone will be retiring soon!" Uh...er...NO! Demographic never panned out as they predicted. Duke, 82: 500 applications for one position; univ Wash, 82: 700 apps...and so on and so forth...

How's your morning look?

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Poster: elbow1126 Date: Oct 20, 2009 5:50am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: A Pox On JOTS!!!!

Cooled off here as well. My kids were thrilled that I had to scrape ice off the car to take them to school yesterday and disappointed that there was no frost today. Sadly it appears genius has eluded my family for yet another generation.

I went to grad school in '82, watched funding plummet and heard the same crap about how it would force out the old guard. Applied for my first job in '95/'96 and saw the same type of competition that you speak of. Got a call from a place to congratulate me that i was 5th on their list of over 300. That didn't even get me an interview.

The conversation and 10-18-72 is making for a nice morning though.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Oct 20, 2009 6:23am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: A Pox On JOTS!!!!

Yikes! Ice on the windshield...recall that from the two yrs in Maine. Haven't dealt with that in more than 20 yrs now I am happy to report.

Take care L!

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Poster: deyzof49 Date: Oct 20, 2009 6:17am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: A Pox On JOTS!!!!

December 21 1866 Mark Twain wrote in a notebook "Geniuses are people who dash off wierd, wild, incomprehensible poems with astonishing facility,& then go & get booming drunk & and sleep in the gutter...people who have genius do not pay their board, as a general thing."

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Poster: skies Date: Oct 21, 2009 6:46am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: A Pox On JOTS!!!!

Your description of a genius is interesting and reminds me that I aslo met worthless bums convinced they too were real genius to cop out on all their responsabilities.